On today’s regular version of the show …

A husband emails to share his journey to getting his wife on board to talking more about sex and wonders why he’s not at the same level of desire as before due to the work it took to reach their current level.

And Jessa Zimmerman joins me for a second opinion segment to help a wife who’s husband will change up the routine right when he sees she’s really enjoying it.

On the Xtended version …

An in-depth conversation with Jessa Zimmerman about the differences in desires in marriage. Learn more about Jessa at her site https://sexwithoutstress.com/

Enjoy the show!


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Transcript of Episode

Corey Allan: I am never unimpressed with the Sexy Marriage Radio nation.

Pam Allan: I was about to say, don’t use the word never, but that one fits quite nicely.

Corey Allan: That’s true, because never always, those are igniters.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And in marriage and relationships, in any kind of conflict, because it just increases the magnitude of whatever it is is going on between you. But no, I have always been impressed, look at that, I’m using on both sides now with the Sexy Marriage Radio nation, because they continually are involved by just listening, emailing, calling, leaving comments, leaving reviews. Even when the reviews aren’t great, they still are speaking up, and that’s the things we want to hear is just what’s going on with people.

Pam Allan: We want people to be intentional about life and to speak up when they want something or need something and speak up when they like something.

Corey Allan: So, to the Sexy Marriage Radio nation, which is everyone that’s listening to this, not just people that have signed up or are part of a membership, but if you’re listening to the show, you’re part of the nation.

Pam Allan: That’s right.

Corey Allan: We say welcome to you and we’re glad that you found us and we want to hear from you. (214) 702-9565 is how you let us know what questions on your mind because we are trying to set up an area where if you got a question you’re not sure where you can ask it, this is the place, because we will be honest. We’ll be up front, we’ll give you good information and if we don’t know the information we’ll go find it, and it might be on the air or it might be off the air, because we’ll email you back with your questions. But, we want to know what’s going on.

Corey Allan: You can also send us emails, feedback, to Sexymarriageradio.com, and as was mentioned before, jump on iTunes, leave a review. Tell us what you think. Leave a comment, help spread the word. Same thing if you listen via another means. We want to spread the word that married sex is the hotbed for sex. One of the ways this also happens is, one of the resources we have that I’ve been doing for years now, is the Man of his word Mastermind groups. If you’re interested, signups are going on now. We’re beginning the whole process of new groups forming, and the way you let me know is you’re interested in that as you send me an email, corey@smrnation.Com. That’s C-O-R-E-Y @smr.fm. Tell me you’re interested in and I’ll give you the next steps because it’s six months that can radically change your life, and your marriage, and your legacy.

Corey Allan: So coming up on today’s regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, couple of your questions and our answers on one of them. But on the second one, I’ve got a second opinion. Jessa Zimmerman is joining me-

Pam Allan: Oh, perfect.

Corey Allan: …to go through a desire discrepancy that’s going on in a married couple that she called in. She’s got a great view, it’s very, very similar but just enough different than me. She’s going to help me out with a second opinion for that segment. Then on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is about twice as long and a little bit deeper on the topic, and plus there’s no ads, you can subscribe@smr.fm. You can listen to a more in depth conversation that I had with Jessa Zimmerman about the higher desire, lower desire dilemma that happens in marriage, because it affects us all.

Pam Allan: It does. In every aspect of marriage, not just sex.

Corey Allan: Absolutely it does. So all that’s coming up on today’s show.

Corey Allan: Here’s an email that came in, Pam, a while back from a husband that was making some observations about episode 411, and that was the whole subject of talking was the title of that episode. So he’s saying that this is specifically in regards to the first caller asking for resources on how to get his wife interested in talking about all things sexual.

Corey Allan: “First off, thanks for the great show. I’ve been a regular listener since the second year when Gina was on. I’ve been one of those higher desire husbands that always hoped to talk more about sex and how to improve our marriage. To me, the desire to improve wasn’t a commentary on how bad things were. I just always had this outlook that on life, no matter how good things are, you can always aim for even greater and have more fun doing it.”

Pam Allan: It’s a good perspective.

Corey Allan: Let’s keep this whole thing going.

Pam Allan: Yeah, great outlook.

Corey Allan: “So yes, a few times I have suggested or sent my wife podcasts, blog articles or books with suggestions that I thought would help, and usually this backfired significantly, sometimes in quite hurtful ways. But I took your advice on being myself and doing what was life giving to me, listening to yours and a few other shows like yours, even though she disliked most of them. Usually, any attempt to talk through this would end up in a difference of opinion or full-out argument. While I even continued to do what was life giving to me in terms of looking for resources and getting into arguments. But this still continued. The cycle seem to ruin him a lot.

Pam Allan: Wait, the cycle ruined him?

Corey Allan: The cycle of arguing over these things, right?

Pam Allan: Okay, yeah, yeah.

Corey Allan: That he’s wanting to move forward and propel it. It ends up in an argument and this whole cycle has just really worn him down. We’ve always said, and Pam has so clearly supported this idea in episode 411, that if we lead by example, eventually the partner will follow. I took that advice and I think I followed it well and it’s worked quite well too. She’s become much more interested over the years in the subject. She’s actually listened to some of the shows says it’s improved, the show has, especially since you’ve joined Pam.

Corey Allan: So, here’s the thing. Having been made to feel rather perverted for almost a decade for my interest in listening to or reading about the subject of sex and marriage, even to the point of comparing its effect on me to those that porn would have, not only by her, but by our marriage counselor at the time and for being criticized for having podcasts on my phone’s like ours and a few similar ones, and marriage blogs that talk about the subject, and being guilted in shame for kids possibly seeing these things on my phone, it’s really taken away my desire to engage her with this subject.

Corey Allan: She asked me sometimes if there’s any good shows, but to me this sounds more like detective work than genuine interested, because he’s skewed on the way she’s reading, even when she genuinely could be interested possibly.

Pam Allan: It sounds like his positive is kind of getting clogged up and needs to get cleaned out.

Corey Allan: Maybe so. I honestly have little desire to share any of what I’ve listened to unless it’s just something funny or critical that I know she’ll agree with. Oh, how I wish she would have been more open like this years ago. I enjoy her openness now, and it makes for a much more relaxed and enjoyable relationship. I just find that I don’t desire it all that much anymore, including sex. It’s not that I dislike it, I just rarely desire it or get excited about it. All of this makes me wonder where I or we went wrong and navigating our differences.

Pam Allan: Oh, that breaks my heart, because you’ve got this desire and now she’s kind of moving, but it sounds like he’s just been burned so much. He’s got all these scars that are sitting there from all the pain of being made to feel like he’s doing something bad.

Corey Allan: Yes. That stings deeply. I don’t know if people recognize that. That there’s a component. This is some of what we talk about in the extended content with, with Jessa Zimmerman on the burden of the higher desire and the burden of the lower desire, that it’s miserable for both at times. Neither one is more clean or genuine or pure. There’s a component of when one person is wanting something that is in line with what they want, but totally not in line and discomforting to the other, and we can react to that with criticism, degradation, some things that can be really hurtful. It really can sting on a real deep level-

Pam Allan: Yeah, that leaves scars.

Corey Allan: Yes.

Pam Allan: Emotional, mental scars.

Corey Allan: So, he’s saying that this is some of the stuff I see a lot in people that when I actually get what I’m looking for, it’s not as good as what I hoped for because of the pain associated with getting it.

Pam Allan: Right, and I can totally see how that happens. Do we also have some to of maybe now that I’ve got it is not as sweet as what I thought it would be.

Corey Allan: Could be.

Pam Allan: You know, I guess there could be-

Corey Allan: I’ve arrived in the promised land and it’s not the promised land that I thought it would be.

Pam Allan: Yeah. I guess there could be some of that. But, I mean clearly he’s got many instances of showing the pain knocking him down.

Corey Allan: What I hear most, there’s two phases come to my mind with this email, Pam.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: One is just, we’ve got to interject the possibility that what else has gone on in your own life in the last, I mean, the show has been around for seven and a half years. He came on board when Gina was around two years in. There’s six years at least with this. So, what’s gone on in your life as far as aging? As far as diminishment of flavors of life anyway, because midlife crisis’ hit and things that used to spark us don’t feel the same.

Corey Allan: I mean I look at my life from 42 to 48, where I am now. It’s a different flavor than what it was when I was 42. Basketball was fun, I would rearrange everything for the lunchtime ball that we would play with the same group of guys I’ve been playing with for years and years and years.

Corey Allan: Now, it’s not as much of a priority because some of the fun is not the same. Some of it is just because my legs feel different and hurt and my knee does.

Pam Allan: That’s going to hurt forever.

Corey Allan: Right. So, there’s a component of us that we have to confront our mortality in that some of the meaning I associated with sex changes as we get older. Some of it is because physically I’ve changed. Some of it is because my partner has changed. The dynamic has changed, and so I’ve got to recognize what’s my lens, what’s my litmus test is one. Just seeing it as, okay. Some of that could be a percentage of what’s going on here, that where he’s talking about, I just don’t desire it like I used to. Some of that could be just because welcome to six years later.

Pam Allan: Right, life changes.

Corey Allan: With the stressors that are also added.

Pam Allan: And that’s normal and it’s okay.

Corey Allan: Absolutely, it is. So, redefining normal is what you need to do.

Corey Allan: Then the second thing is it just sounds like, and this is the stuff he’s alluding to, it sounds like he’s got some wounding that’s not been healed. It’s not been addressed. Maybe it’s not been held to account yet.

Pam Allan: Maybe we’re talking, the last question he has here makes me think some of it could be crying over spilled milk.

Corey Allan: Some of it. Yes. I think that’s another thing. I see a lot of that.

Pam Allan: What could we have done differently? What could we have done differently? We spent so much time thinking about the past and we could have been in such a better spot today. But you know what? We can’t do anything about the past. All we can do is deal with what we have today, and what we have moving forward, and let’s it better. Don’t forget history, right?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: That’s why we have history classes. We teach our kids about-

Corey Allan: That’s why we have rear view mirrors.

Pam Allan: Rear view mirrors. We teach our kids about history, about how things happen and why they happen so that hopefully we don’t recreate that. But, it’s funny because even in our textbook sometimes real history isn’t what’s in the book, right. What we remember could be a tainted version of what the past was. So the perspective that we have of today, and what the future can hold, goes a really long way.

Corey Allan: Right. Let’s end this segment. There’s two different stories that come to mind from two different books that I think apply to this. Because the landing on the crying over spilled milk is a human phenomenon that we have a lot of time. Where man, I’m too focused on what it took to actually get to where I wanted to be rather than we arrived. We’re at a really good spot. Now my focus on the past is really diminishing my current.

Corey Allan: One story comes from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is the name of the book. Read this in grad school, and there’s just a component, a little story in there from the author, that he went over to a monastery in Tibet that every year the entire monastery, or it could be every month, I don’t remember all the details specifically, but they climb a mountain that this monastery sits at the foot of, so it’s a well worn ridge path all the way to the top and it takes all day to do it.

Corey Allan: He went over and spent some time with this monastery and during that time they climbed and so he climbed with them. It’s one of those climbs, I don’t know if any of you in the Sexy Marriage Radio nation that are outdoor mountain people, but it’s one of those climbs that you’re climbing it and most of the time you can see the summit. To some people that’s freeing, I like those and some hate them. I’m in the camp, I don’t like those because you could climb and climb and climb and all the work and you look at it go, “I have no closer. When am I ever going to get there?” Because you could see where you’re trying to go. So, it’s a miserable climb for this guy, the author, yet he’s looking around at the monks climbing beside him and they have just this blissful look on their face.

Corey Allan: So, after the whole climbs over and they get back down and he’s kind of debriefing and he goes to a couple of them and he says, “What’s the difference? That whole thing was horrible.” It wasn’t that he’s out of shape. He had prepared for this. But this thing was horrible. What is it? One monk replied to him was said, “You were so focused on the top, you didn’t even realize what was going on with your step.”, Or something to that effect. Whereas these monks-

Pam Allan: Enjoy the journey.

Corey Allan: …were just focused on what was the next step, what was going on right beside them, which then dovetails into one of my favorite little parables, which is found in the book Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning. Great read for anybody that wants a really fabulous look at the whole concept of grace.

Corey Allan: In it he tells a story of another monk, and this is a parable, that was out on his meditative walk and he was doing it through the jungle. So, he’s having to carve a path through the weeds and the the limbs and the branches. He clears a path and on the other side of this limb is a Bengal tiger that looks like he hasn’t eaten in quite awhile, but yet has just found his next meal. So, this monk, being a sane gentlemen, immediately takes off running. He’s hacking his way, trying to get away from the tiger as fast as he can. He clears one of the limbs and he notices he’s at the top of this 500 foot cliff and he looks down and he sees these jagged rocks and he looks behind him and he sees this Bengal tiger coming and he looks to the side and he sees this vine going down the side of the cliff.

Corey Allan: So he grabs it and shimmies this way down out of the reach of the tiger. Right?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: So along that same time, two little mice come climbing out onto the vine and start gnawing away at the vine. He looks up and he sees the tiger and he looks down and sees the rocks that are his near future and he looks to the side of the cliff and he sees this little patch of strawberries growing out of the cliff and he goes, “Oh, strawberry”, and he eats the strawberry as if nothing else was going on.

Corey Allan: Moral of said story in parable is we can get so caught up in our past, the tiger, or so caught up in the future, the rocks, that we miss the little blessings life’s giving us right then and there. The strawberries.

Corey Allan: You and I have the phrase we’ve used throughout a lot of our marriage since reading that book of enjoy the strawberries.

Pam Allan: Enjoy them man.

Corey Allan: Which is just a marker of be aware of what’s going on right now. Doesn’t mean past or future don’t matter, but where’s your focus? Sometimes it’s not that you’re going to get caught, this is to the email, you’re going to get caught up in yeah, it was a arduous task to get to the point where your wife is as open as she is now. It was a lot of work and a lot of pain that went on with it. But look at where you’ve arrived, honor that. Then if there’s some unfinished business that needs to be brought up on “Baby, I don’t know if some of what you’ve said way back and some of what our counselors said. I don’t know if you know how much that really did hurt.” Sometimes just claiming that, not that she can make up for it, but you’re claiming of it helps heal it.

Caller: Hi, I had a question about, so my husband, we, I would say, we’ve been married for three years and I would say that our sex life is not as enjoyable I guess as it could be. We probably have sex once, maybe twice, a week, but we have also gone up to three weeks without. Some of my issues with it is again, the way that things happen. One of my big issues is that when he may be stimulating me perfectly, once he sees that I’m enjoying that, he feels like he needs to do it more or rougher or harder or whatever that might be.

In fact, I’ve tried telling him, you know, like you can tell that I’m enjoying it, don’t change what you’re doing, keep doing exactly what you’re doing. I just feel like being able to understand that, or he’s just trying to almost get me further by doing the same thing that I look like I’m enjoying but doing it harder. Then he also gets super, super, aroused, obviously, when he sees me enjoying that, and then he’s done, and it’s done, and I might not be done. I’m looking for tips on how we can fix that.

Also, one other thing that I wanted to mention is, I know that he gets bored, because it seems like we’re doing the same position every time, and the same thing every time. It’s a slower pace, getting me going, he gets on top, he finishes, I get on top, I need to finish after he’s finished. But we recently tried mixing it up and me starting on top. So, he finished and then at that point I’m not able to finish because it tickles, and he starts laughing and moving and I can’t, you know, so I’m all almost at climax, and he can’t take it because it start tickling him, and I’m stuck.

I would really appreciate and insight that you might be able to give me.

Corey Allan: So, to help out with the answer to this question, I’ve reached out to a colleague friend of mine Jessa Zimmerman, who’s been on the show before. So Jessa, it’s good to see you again.

Jessa Zimmerman: You too.

Corey Allan: I’m glad you can help, come in and give us a second opinion and let’s together just dive in and help out this caller from Sexy Marriage Radio nation. So what jumps out to you? I’ll let you start.

Jessa Zimmerman: Okay. Well, the first thing that jumps out to me is I would want to know from her how she reads her husband in terms of his motivation. Because on the one hand, I could hear a story like this and think, “Oh, they’re just struggling to communicate. Clearly they don’t understand.” On the other hand, it really is possible that we’ve got somebody who’s sabotaging her pleasure. I mean, I hate to say that, but it happens. Is there any way that this is hostile?

Corey Allan: You’re talking about coming from him? Not from her.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Okay.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah, from him. I mean, I guess I’d always entertain the idea from the other partner as well, but you know, somebody who’s told, “Hey, this is what I needed to get there”, and then they don’t do it. Especially repeatedly. I do have to wonder-

Corey Allan: What’s the motivation behind it? What’s going on underneath it?

Jessa Zimmerman: Right. Is he pissed off about something else or is there some other issue? Because that really does happen.

Corey Allan: Yes, it does, and I’m glad that you go there because that’s the dark side that we don’t like to talk about in couples. That in marriage is that we have components of us, and I think even the best of marriages have semblances of this. As you go through the variety of people out there, you can have it to where it’s even more severe.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah. Sometimes it’s just a dark person or a mean person, but sometimes it’s a result of other relationship stresses that they have, and somebody’s resentful and pissed off for maybe good reasons and it’s playing out that way in the bedroom. But, you and I both trained with David Stars, right? He talks about his phrase of normal marital sadism. I mean it really is possible to enjoy being mean to each other.

Corey Allan: Yes, it is.

Jessa Zimmerman: But, let’s take that off the table. Let’s say that’s not what’s happening.

Corey Allan: Let’s go.

Jessa Zimmerman: I think they need some more communication, because I think it’s a common phenomenon for us in sex to imagine that the other person reacts like we do. I think especially for men, potentially with a female partner, I think as a generalization, man, as they get aroused, go faster and harder and they drive towards an orgasm.

Corey Allan: I’ll own that. You’re on point with that, yes.

Jessa Zimmerman: That’s generally not how women work. Now, everybody’s unique too. But for a lot of women that’s exactly when you either don’t change or you slow down. I just think it’s hard for guys to wrap their mind around that. You mean we don’t just grab and go?

Corey Allan: It is. Absolutely. Take the bull by the horn, come on, and let’s just go.

Jessa Zimmerman: That’s not how it works. Paul Joinides put out a wonderful little video called The Clitoris and he addresses it in there. That would be a great resource for listeners, because he says you don’t change at that point.

Corey Allan: Yeah. Because that’s the one thing that jumps out to me. Well, there’s several that do just like with you, from listening to her. But it’s the idea of the importance of rhythm for a woman. It seems to just really be paramount and especially when you get higher up the arousal scale to the point of climax, that there is an incredible importance to, you’ve got to have a rhythm and a consistency in some regards to keep that cultivating and then stoke it even more. Variety doesn’t play in real well a lot of times.

Jessa Zimmerman: Right, right. I also know that for some women, and again this is generalizations, but women may not want to go in a linear let’s start and drive towards a finish. Sometimes women need a little easing off and then picking up and easing off and picking up. So, the communication with your partner, whether it’s female or male or anything else, is just so crucial to really tune in to what they are telling you about what they need.

Jessa Zimmerman: It’s my belief that we are each responsible for our own pleasure. It’s not our partner’s job to know what to do and magically deliver it. But it is their job to listen. We have to enlist them in our pleasure and then they need to be paying attention to the information that we’re giving them.

Corey Allan: That’s my other point that jumps out is because she’s talked about this before, she says. She says, I’ve mentioned it to him that when you see I’m into it, and you see that everything is going and unfolding beautifully, don’t stop, don’t change that. Don’t go harder. So, my question that jumps to me, tell me if this does with you, is what is it that makes her think that because she says that out of the moment, he’s not picking it up in the moment. So why not try to say it in the moment?

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah. Yeah. That is a really good question. Does she just let that happen and then keep her mouth zipped at that point? Or she’s saying, “Whoa, Whoa, remember, slow down.” Because, our lovers may need that coaching in the moment. What do we need right now?

Corey Allan: I like the idea of, as a man, being very up front about that. You know, I said do not go that way. Go back to where you, it’s almost very directive, there’s no misinterpretation or there’s less possibilities of misinterpretation. Just be very, very clear and blunt about it.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah. I also think it’s one thing to hear the words, keep doing what you’re doing don’t go rougher, harder. It’s another thing to sync that up with our brain, with what our hands, or mouth, or whatever actually doing. So, to get that feedback in the moment where you can implement it. Feedback and implement and feedback and implement. Oh, this is what you mean by slow. I never really put that together. The words aren’t enough. We have to tie that up with what we’re doing.

Corey Allan: Right. Because there is a component of us as men, you were talking about that I’m trying to own and represent, that we will fall into what worked last time. The get caught in this is the way I work, so obviously it’s the way you should work. There is an importance to being able to connect and put those things together, even including your own hands into the situation with his to help show, model, teach, move, whatever it could be. There’s a lot of different ways to communicate that.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah. Yeah. Now I’m having another thought because combined with her second question, I kept picturing hands in this, but, but now I’m thinking maybe this isn’t penetrative sex. Maybe what he’s doing is he’s getting excited enough that he’s going harder and faster because all of a sudden he switches-

Corey Allan: The goal is not about her, it’s him. Yes.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah. Maybe it’s not even about hands, maybe his pleasure is they’re right at a moment of whose pleasure gets prioritized right here.

Corey Allan: Exactly. That’s true.

Jessa Zimmerman: So, even though she said keep doing what you’re doing, he may be being swept up into his own arousal pattern and stuff like that.

Corey Allan: Which is a common thing among couples, is that we reached that point of tunnel vision to finish the task at hand possibly. Which also sounds like it’s fine because we’re going back and forth between the two different questions she’s asking. But, it also sounds like he can get caught up in she’s got a lot of pleasure and so he’s wanting to to drive it home and that’s why he speeds it up, gets rough or whatever because that might be what works for him is what you alluded to at the very beginning.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah. He may be at that point, maybe at that point, trying to drive it home for him.

Corey Allan: Yes.

Jessa Zimmerman: She’s turned on, it really turns him on, and it’s like okay I’m going for orgasm. It’s been apparently difficult for him to rein that in and slow down and wait.

Corey Allan: Also doing the pick up, which is her last question, that you can do more things than just penetrative sex or an erect penis to bring pleasure to a woman.

Jessa Zimmerman: Well, yeah, but I’d almost, I mean it sounds to me a little bit like she might need that reminder too, because it sounds like he finishes and then I can’t and it doesn’t sound like she’s saying, wait, wait. There’s other stuff we could be doing or other ways I could get to orgasm. I mean, if she’s one of the minority of women that orgasm through penetrative sex, cool. But maybe that’s meant she hasn’t gotten to explore all the other ways that someone might reach an orgasm.

Corey Allan: Yeah. She hasn’t broadened her own repertoire of that?

Jessa Zimmerman: Right.

Corey Allan: Okay, because that’s the thing I love telling people, especially husbands, is that sex is more than just an erect penis. Especially for a woman, sex is the entirety of the experience together. If you’ve already climaxed and your refractory period makes you either overly sensitized, which is a pretty common occurrence in a lot of men. I love it, because in the pre show you were talking about there’s other areas of your body that won’t be as sensitive.

Jessa Zimmerman: That’s true.

Corey Allan: That you can still do stuff with for her benefit and her pleasure, which then sometimes is a rewriting of his own scripts of wait, I can keep going. You know your fingers still work, your legs still work, your your tongue still works, your body still works. Just not all of it yet.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah, the vibrator still works, right? It could be any number of things, but it did sound to me in her question, like they both might have bought into the script a little bit that while they want to shake up sex, the conversation was about positions. Not so much about, wait, what else? What other kind of pleasure can we share? What are the other ways we might reach an orgasm if we want one. How does this not culminate in intercourse, and that doesn’t have to be the end even if there’s orgasm there.

Corey Allan: I liked that. We want to shake up sex and they go into the world of just positions rather than shaking up. Sex can be the whole experience, our whole script, our whole preconceived notions of what makes this happen and what makes it good and how do we know when we’re done.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if that’s not, I mean I thought I was hearing that in her wording, but even if that’s not true for them, it’s going to be true for other listeners, right?

Corey Allan: Absolutely, it will be.

Jessa Zimmerman: There’s just so many issues with making sex about doing particular things with particular body parts or having particular outcomes because those are not always possible for us.

Corey Allan: No, they’re not.

Jessa Zimmerman: We get older, there’s disease. I mean all kinds of things can happen. So it’s really beneficial to broaden the menu and expand the idea of what is sex. There’s always room to play, you know?

Corey Allan: Absolutely. That’s the beauty of confronting self and your system better, of broadening what’s the answers and what are the possibilities of these answers rather than what they’ve always been. How do I start to shift them to what they could be.

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah.

Corey Allan: That’s great. Jessa, thank you so much.

Jessa Zimmerman: You’re welcome.

Corey Allan: I think that your take on this is spot on, and I love the things you’re picking up on that I’m not even seeing. So, well done. Just for the Sexy Marriage Radio nation’s opportunity to know more about you, and find you, tell them where they can find you and why they should. Let’s go there too.

Jessa Zimmerman: Why are they should? Well they can find me at Sexwithouttress.com. Why they should because they’re probably not in Seattle where they could come see me as a therapist. But they might be interested in my book by that name. I’m trying to take on the sexual avoidance cycle that couples get into. Then I have an online course based on that, and I host the Better Sex podcast as you know, because you’ve been a guest on that. So, those should all be reasons to find me.

Corey Allan: Yes, you do, and it’s worth checking out everything that Jessa do, I wholeheartedly endorse and recommend because it is stuff that helps address what couples face, and it does it in practical, honest, straight forward ways. We’re very alike in a lot of ways-

Jessa Zimmerman: Yeah, we are.

Corey Allan: …but it’s also one to hear from a different voices is totally beneficial. So, go check it out. Jessa, thank you so much for joining us for the segment.

Jessa Zimmerman: You’re welcome.

Corey Allan: I like it when we have the opportunity to hear other voices.

Pam Allan: Oh absolutely. Absolutely.

Corey Allan: Especially when they’re so in line with, with what we do and how we think of life. Jessa is Schnarchian, that’s the phrase we’re coining, I don’t know if that’s actually a real word.

Pam Allan: Corey just gets giddy around Schnarchians.

Corey Allan: I do. We all drink the same Kool Aid to varying degrees. But, the viewpoint is so great when you can hear it from a slightly different perspective, because that’s the power of the synergy of marriage. The synergy of relationships where we’re not always clones, and that’s a good thing.

Corey Allan: So, when you think of your married life and the things that drive you crazy about your spouse, what could that be revealing that could be a really good thing, actually?

Corey Allan: Well, has been Sexy Marriage Radio. We’re so glad to the Sexy Marriage Radio nation that you take time out of your day, and however you choose to find us, and that you spend it with us. So, anything we left undone that you would like to hear more of? Or a question you’ve got? (214) 702-9565. We’d love to hear you.