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On the Regular Version …
In this episode, we discuss the concept of mercy sex in a marriage. What are the characteristics of mercy sex and the impact it has on both the lower desire and higher desire spouses?
We also discuss the pressure to have sex and how it affects the dynamics of a relationship. As well as a discussion on how to move from mercy sex to freely chosen sex, where both spouses are actively participating and enjoying the experience.
- Mercy sex is characterized by a lack of initiation, a distaste for sex, a desire to get it over with quickly, and a lack of presence and connection during the act.
- The lower desire spouse may feel pressure and guilt when it comes to sex, while the higher desire spouse may accept mercy sex as a way to ease their own insecurities.
- Both spouses need to confront their own issues and communicate openly about their desires and boundaries in order to move from mercy sex to freely chosen sex.
- Facing the pressure to have sex in a marriage is a normal part of committed relationships, and both partners need to accept and navigate this pressure in a healthy way.
On the Xtended Version …
Join us in a thought experiment. We all strive for great sex in marriage, or at least many people do. But could great sex actually be a hinderance to good sex in marriage?
Listen to hear us explore this idea.
Enjoy the show!
Academy: Join the Academy and go deeper. https://smr.fm/academy
Corey Allan: Welcome to the show. I'm Dr. Corey Allan. Well, yeah, sometimes it seems like as we get going for each time we're getting ready to record, I just got to welcome you, babe, just to say it's so good to see you here on the show.
Pam Allan: It's good for all of us to be here listening and talking.
Corey Allan: Well, I'm Dr. Corey Allen and that's my wife, Pam, where we're having straightforward, honest conversations to help cultivate the space between you and your spouse. And we want to talk about all aspects of that space between us, which we're going to do it in a real particular way on both ends of the spectrum today. So that should be fun to do. So if you want to jump on and add your voice, add your questions, add your comments to the show, please do so, 2 1 4 7 0 2 9 5 6 5 or firstname.lastname@example.org because what we're trying to do is explore the relationship topics that everyone faces and we want to offer ways that you can have conversations and actions that you can take that will help propel you into more deeper, meaningful connections with each other. So we can take the everyday ordinary hopefully and make it extraordinary. There's a tagline for you.
I like it. So if you're new to the show or you want to tell other people about it, one of the easiest ways to do is our episode starter packs. These are organized by topics and by the favorites and the easy way to share and get caught up. And if you go to SMR fm slash starter is where you can find that. Or if you're on Spotify, you can find that via Spotify. And so as we've started into January, one of the things we're doing that we started promoting last week, and so we're still in the middle of January here, it's a way that you can win your registration cost covered for the sexy Marriage radio getaway by leaving us a review. So if you go to Apple Podcasts, leave a review and then email us at email@example.com with the username that you use to set for said review that enters you in a chance to win your registration cost being covered, which is a $675 value.
Pam Allan: And the getaway is
Corey Allan: When the getaway is June 13th through the 15th in 2024. So plenty of time to prepare, plenty of time to not have to worry about the storms that are rolling through the country right now as this week airs.
Pam Allan: Shouldn't be a snowstorm in Texas in June.
Corey Allan: Shouldn't. We've got a whole nother world going on if that's the case. But yeah, so if you leave a review on Apple Podcasts, let us know the username that you used that puts you into the contest to win your registration covered being covered. And even if you don't win and you want to come to the getaway by doing that process, we will give you $75 off your registration. And so jump on Apple podcasts, us a review, and just be honest and it's about the show, just be honest about it. We're not asking for just glowing ones unless that's really what you believe. So this came in actually before we started the promotion. Okay. On that note too, if you've just recently given us a review and you want to enter in, send us the username, we'll count that if it's been within the last month because nobody knew about the contest going on, so there's no need. Hey, I got to go give another review. I don't know if Apple allows closely spaced reviews.
Pam Allan: I don't know if they do
Corey Allan: They overcome that? Let us know. Good idea.
Pam Allan: I like where you're going, the
Corey Allan: Username, but this one came in, make sure I read this correctly, that says a thoughtful, mature, intelligent podcast talking about real sex and marriage. Dr. Allen addresses the issues head on and makes speaking about hard stuff easy. Co-host also, his wife is so insightful. She's not a trained therapist like him, so she brings a real life perspective when his intelligences outpaces wisdom,
Pam Allan: When your intelligence outpaces your wisdom. I'm not
Corey Allan: Quite sure how to take that concept, concept,
Pam Allan: Concept. Not sure there, but that's pretty funny.
Corey Allan: But it is kind of comical. Thanks for the review. The way I would interpret that last sentence he gives is what we as humans can often do, where I phrase it as when I get out over my skis.
Pam Allan: Well, yeah, maybe so that's a good analogy.
Corey Allan: Okay, I'm kind of testing something out and I might go horribly wrong and crash. It's
Pam Allan: Possible. Or it's just the book speak and smart speak, and I'm like, give me the street smarts maybe.
Corey Allan: So side of it maybe, right? So coming up today on the regular version of the episode is an email that came in on the topic of mercy sex. So it's a couple that's been going through a patch in their marriage. And so we got an email from a listener that we'll just unpack, but it's going to land on the idea of mercy sex and what do we do about it? What is it? What are the characteristics? On and on it goes. And then on the extended content today, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at smr fm slash academy. We're going to go the other end of the spectrum and I want to have a dialogue with you, Pam, and then we'll pivot it to the academy on the platform afterwards of is it possible that great sex actually isn't good for good sex,
Pam Allan: It hinders good sex.
Corey Allan: All that's coming up on today's show. So here's the email that came in, Pam that says, Dr. Corey, after reading your book and listening to the podcast, I'm in such a better place as an individual, which is so awesome to hear. He's talking about naked marriage. If you're new to the show and you don't know the book that I have out there, we went through a difficult time in 2022 and 23. Lots of it surrounded poor communication, resentment, mercy, which we didn't realize that's what it was at the time, and we ended it all with counseling over the summer. She said she was done with the marriage. Our counseling didn't work for us, and I think it actually may have made things worse. I had a bit of a breakdown. She did as well as a result of me breaking down. So we were stuck in an a-frame marriage.
So when she stepped back, I fell on my face with a new marriage coach that we're working with now. We stabilized and grew into better people for each other in all facets of our marriage outside of the sex piece, with sex being off the table, we focused on ourselves as individuals and in turn grew in our marriage. In September, our marriage coach asked her to consider bringing the sex piece back into our relationship. We haven't progressed much since then. We were moving in a positive direction, and then we began to plateau, and we both had a discussion yesterday morning where we felt like that we had taken a step back. She said she stuck on the sex piece. She cannot grow past the feeling of the hurt from the mercy sex that we had for about five months. She has a lot of anxiety and worries about it every night, feeling like she's facing pressure to have sex even though we haven't had it since March.
And I'm trying not to push her into it. She said most of the pressure's coming from herself. She did say that she's at least thinking about it now, but she just quickly turns it into pressure, anxiety, fear, and that adds to the heaviness to her. I told her in my efforts to grow as an individual, I've learned a lot about mercy, sex, the damage it can cause and how we can grow through it. She said she wasn't ready for me to share the podcast or other materials, but that she would tell me if she would be. So I'm trying to be patient through the process, but we're at this point where I think we're both stuck. She said yesterday that she wants to have a sexual component in her life. I asked her if she wanted it to be with me or not, and she said she hoped wanted it, that it would be with me.
I think that she's struggling with the pain of what we went through, and I don't know how to grow beyond it. She has a high pressure job that brings a lot of stress and anxiety, and this has been a tough season at work. So I think she's having trouble trying to figure out how that piece fits into with our relationship as well. Thanks. So this is a pretty actually common experience to varying degrees of marriage. You agree? I mean, we face some of the components of outside stressors come in and weigh on internal stressors and personal stressors, which this then just magnify attention and pressure that's inherently felt.
Pam Allan: Yeah, I guess I want to understand a piece that I'm not familiar with is having that big span of not having sex at all. It sounds like they haven't had sex since March
Corey Allan: At least.
Pam Allan: Yes. Okay. And I'm trying to understand a little bit more, not real clear on what mercy sex is. Okay. And so she's feeling, I don't want to say harmed, that's not the word they were looking for, but feeling the repercussions of the effects of what they call mercy sex,
Corey Allan: What he terms as mercy sex. Okay. So
Pam Allan: That was a bad experience for them. So define for me what mercy sex is.
Corey Allan: Let's define that because again, meanings matter. And so what I can do, what we can do here is talk about some characteristics that are evident in mercy sex, but again, meanings matter because I think as people listen to this, even as you hear this, because when I was reading this and getting this together, I was like, check a couple of times because like, whoa. And so I think it's going to come down to making sure you hear these things, and then where we go with it next is what's going to really help make the difference. But if you're talking about characteristics of mercy, sex one, and these are in no particular order as far as a hierarchy,
You don't initiate sex. It's always the partner who initiates it. You could even add in a caveat of you're not responsive and you actively try to avoid, but then when you do have sex, it's quick or we will also talk about that this will be another characteristic to you have a distaste for sex that for whatever reason, you just eventually develop a distaste for it. And a lot of times of how it unfolds, what unfolds, it's not pleasing, it's not satisfying, but it also, all these things will expose things in ourselves. Sure. As we're wrestling through this three, you just want it to get over as fast as possible. This is the one where there's often very little to no foreplay, because
Pam Allan: Which causes all kinds of other issues. Then you don't have appropriate lubrication and all kinds of steps.
Corey Allan: Absolutely. Part of this becomes a cycle that continues to harm itself
Pam Allan: Mentally and physically hard.
Corey Allan: Okay? Yep. Number four, your mind gets distracted easily when you're having sex because you're preoccupied with other things. You're not present. Again, this goes back to the third one of you just want it to be over as fast as possible, so you're distracted.
Pam Allan: I'm distracted by my last bad experience of how it hurt and I think it's going to happen,
Corey Allan: Or how bad this is, or why we have to keep doing this or on and on and on. It goes. Five, you don't like too much touching or kissing. If there's any kissing, actually that can be a sign. Six. You avoid experimenting with new techniques or positions. It's always the same process every time, same place, same space, same time, et cetera. You refuse the advances of your partner,
Pam Allan: Refuse the advances,
Corey Allan: And it makes you guilty. It makes you feel guilty when you do so.
Pam Allan: Okay. You
Corey Allan: Feel awkward about it after nine, and this is where it starts to get a little more. Okay, this one's not just as common, but this is one that's a signal of, whoa, do some more investigating within yourself for awareness, you use sex to brighten your partner's mood or get them off your back because what you find is you're really trying to do it just to get them to not sulk or pout or be mad or frustrated. And so you actually weaponizing it. And this is where there's a fine line between sex out of choice and then sex out of pity and weaponizing it. And that's where it also would be. I say
Pam Allan: That sounds like, okay. Yeah. I gotcha.
Corey Allan: And then the last one is the overall status of your relationship may seem shaky, and so you're really confused about how you feel, and this is where sex is. Oftentimes then just more of an act than a component of the relationship. There's not a connectedness to it, it's more just the act. This is one of the things that I jump on with clients that will tell me they are in a really, really bad spot in the relationship, but they have really passionate sex.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: This is almost the flip the script,
Pam Allan: Right? So where do you go with
Corey Allan: That then? Well, the question I ask on that is, is it passionately connected sex or it's just incredibly pleasurable sex? Because what they've done most of the time is harness the energy and the anger and the angst and funneled it into their sex life. So it's not really connectedness. It's really we have orgasms by ourselves with our spouse nearby is basically what it winds up
Pam Allan: Being or using our spouse's body parts or whatever the piece.
Corey Allan: I'm having it with my spouse by them. It's not a connected thing. It's really just I'm doing it by myself. They're just a mechanism to help make it happen.
Pam Allan: So when they walk away from that sexual experience, it's not drying anything closer between them two, which
Corey Allan: Look at that also is what happens in mercy sex, where the lower desire spouse, and we're going to just use it in this terminology for this sake of this couple, she e is having it for the sake of him,
Pam Allan: Or at least had it in the past for the sake of
Corey Allan: Him. Well, that's what mercy sex would be defined as. Right? It's more of a, I'm just doing this for you. And then what is the determinant in my mind of how you differentiate? Is it mercy, sex or choice? Who do I blame if I didn't like it or I felt guilted into it or I felt I had to, who do I blame? That's how you start to understand is it mercy sex or not? Because to me, mercy sex and the way Shanar talks about it too, there's a level of cruelty that goes on with mercy sex. It's not pity. It's also cruel.
Pam Allan: And are we saying that it's, is he saying that it's cruel by the low desire who's not wanting it?
Corey Allan: Both
Pam Allan: Of
Corey Allan: Them. Yes. Because it exposes things in both sides. And so let's talk about the two different, yeah, let's do extremes here or the two different members in this equation. So first off, we'll talk about the wife and we will kind of use it in the framework of mercy sex, but also in the framework of what she's facing.
Pam Allan: So I'm starting out with, the first thing I hear is the thing that says out to me she's facing doesn't like the pressure she has to have sex. And I've got a couple thoughts on that, but I want, well, I'm curious. There's all kinds of things in life that we have pressure. And so how does she come about those things? And she's not listening to the podcast. He is, so I don't want to dive too much into that, but he referred to, she's got a lot of pressure at work. Well, when she has pressure at work, does she just walk away from work and not face it and not deal with that pressure?
Corey Allan: She might walk away from work and feel guilty, feel frustrated, feel attacked, and attack back. And how she complains about, because again, that's a good way to look at this, Pam, is this kind of a dynamic when you're talking about pressure is happening inherently in life.
Pam Allan: Life
Corey Allan: Is pressure.
Pam Allan: So used to say this all the time, how you do sex is how you do life, how you do life is how you do sex. And so you got that pressure there. I guess the difference there is that what she does at work has nothing to do necessarily with her husband. This sex dynamic involves another person. It doesn't involve
Corey Allan: Well, but it involves coworkers. It involves the role she plays, the responsibility she has where she fits into the mechanism of what makes that place work. And so it's an easy way to start looking at, there is little difference in the aspects of our lives. If I look at as a system and then what's being required of me or exposed of me in this system, because yes, in marriage, she feels pressure to have sex. And this is a common thing of she has a lot of anxiety and worries every night feeling like she's facing pressure to have sex. Yes, you are. You're married. That comes with the territory. And I'm not at all saying it's licensed to, you must have, but in essence, I'm saying there are dynamics that are naturally at play in committed relationships, marriage being the culmination, highest one in a lot of ways that are just come with it. And so you're faced with, do I want this choice or that choice? And in her case, do I want to have to face the pressures of having sex with my husband or not? I also need to ask the question of do I want to face having the pressures of having sex for myself
Pam Allan: Or not? Or not?
Corey Allan: Because a lot of times play it out either way. If I go down the route of I want to have sex in my life, okay, well then good. That's in line with the marriage. Maybe it's in line with what he's wanting to, but even that case isn't exactly what may be he wants because the kinds of times, the kinds of what we do, how often,
Pam Allan: Yeah, there's still pressure there, but there's also going to be pressure if I choose not to have sex, I mean either way has some sort of pressure and anxiety
Corey Allan: Around, I could go the other end of the spectrum. Let's say there's a couple we've come across in the show over the years we've done this, that they have sex every day. Well, what if one of 'em is like, I really don't want to today. Well, there's pressure there of how do I bring that up? Because it's an expectation of we'll be having it every day, and then it becomes, well, I don't know. And so we do
Pam Allan: Only every other day,
Corey Allan: All of these things start to expose things in ourselves. But what we often do is jump to blaming other people. The human nature trait, A lot of times Adam and Eve did it as well, if you have a biblical worldview, so what she's facing and where she is in this relationship is no one else can take that pressure off of her
Pam Allan: Just herself.
Corey Allan: Well, she's got to face it. And I don't think you can take the pressure off of you. You change how you face it, and you just be more upfront because she has to accept the pressure. And so what she needs to do, in my mind, and this is for not necessarily for her unless she's listening, but for those that are listening that find themselves, and I'm the lower desire partner, I'm the one that feels like, because you and I have had this conversation of you would stop advances or playfulness because it was inevitably going to be guilty if you stopped it later. Like, I don't want to lead 'em on.
Pam Allan: I knew the guilt was coming if I knew I didn't want to
Corey Allan: Build up and then not follow through. Right? And so it's a preemptive guilt avoidance, if you will.
Pam Allan: I mean, we all know the game plan. Absolutely. And we know how it plays out. And
Corey Allan: So one of the things we've tried to talk about in our marriage is the difference between, okay, so it's preemptive now, but you're still facing it. So what happens when you harness and embody the ability to, I can stop this when I want to. I can take this where I want to, and then my partner has to deal with it one way or another. That's where you have to grow into, okay, I'm willing to try to confront what's being exposed in me as he pursues this aspect of our marriage and his life.
Pam Allan: So I feel like we've talked about from his perspective, I mean her perspective,
Corey Allan: Well, what she's recognized, because here's what I want just before we wound this down with her for the lower desired spouse, because one of the things that's interesting about the lower desire is they get to have all the sex they want to have without having to want it. That's the dynamic of it.
Pam Allan: But even if they don't have to end up having sex, there's still other repercussions from that for her, there's the pressure, there's the guilt, there's the whatever it is. And it doesn't mean that if I'm the lower desire and I don't want to have sex and I'm controlling and we're not having sex, doesn't mean that I'm happy sitting on my side of the table.
Corey Allan: Absolutely.
Pam Allan: It's not bringing happiness. Some
Corey Allan: Of this is, which is my best bad choice forward because sometimes we don't get the choice we want, and so waiting for it is still a choice. My choosing to wait, hypothetically speaking is a choice. It doesn't usually work out well either, but she's facing, and those that are in this quandary, ask yourself some curious questions of how do you try to get your spouse to back off or pull away or avoid, and what is that exposing in you, right? Because that's our path forward is to start to confront, look, I know you're interested in this. I know this is a dynamic that we're, I'm trying to work towards too. I'm just not quite there because by facing it, cleaner is a better way. Even when we had the conversation about preemptive guilt, stopping change, the dynamic between us, because it was a different level of awareness, and I could then start looking at what's being communicated differently. You could start looking at what's being communicated differently and communicate better
Pam Allan: Being if I don't want it to move forward. I mean, a real life example in that situation, say, I had some flirting going on with you earlier that day. If I know that I'm not going to want it to move farther that night, I can say that outright. I can say, you look smoking hot. I love touching your biceps, whatever it is, and FYI, this isn't to come on for sex tonight, right? I mean,
Corey Allan: I can say that
Pam Allan: I'm not doing this
Corey Allan: To have it happen now,
Pam Allan: But I want you to know that, man, you
Corey Allan: Feel good. Again, this is part of the dynamic then of recognizing if you're doing those things and not recognizing it or at least acknowledging it, that's where it starts to become cruel. That's where it starts to become, I'm playing with someone's emotions. That's where the couple I had, I've mentioned them before on the show. This was a long, long time ago. He would spend all day getting her going, and then when it came time, she's like, Hey. He's like, nah,
Pam Allan: Right? Yeah. He flipped this.
Corey Allan: He was cruel with it, and it was blatant. He never thought of it as cruelty. He always thought of it as, yeah, the times passed, and he thought he was, I don't know how he was thinking he had high ground with this thing, but he didn't at all. And then she got furious and disappointed or frustrated and would internalized. And so looking at the dynamic of how sex unfolds, particularly when it comes to mercy sex or the cruelty therein for the other side of the equation, what's exposed in the higher desired spouses, the acceptance of pity sex, because then you get caught in this quandary of, well, it is still sex, but you have to, to ask yourself the question, is it, is it really? It's an act, yes. But in reality, how is pity sex any different than masturbating? It's just an ejaculation if you're talking about it with the husband, right? This is one of the guys in a mastermind group years ago said, I phrased that as masturbating without using my hands, kind of doing it by myself. She's there in body only.
Pam Allan: Well, and you think about the wording that's been used here and how it affected her and how negative the mercy sex was, and now it's caused scarring, mental scarring of how bad that was.
Corey Allan: And again, all of that is going to be based predominantly on who do I blame for how it went the way it went? Because what I say, the story I tell myself is what determines what I do going forward? Because I have to, in my mind, recognize I have power all the time of how I interact and relate to the aspects of my marriage.
Pam Allan: So even if I blame my spouse, I could blame myself. I could blame my spouse. It still is some sort of scarring.
Corey Allan: Yes, absolutely. I'm not, either way, there's trauma and hurt and scarring that, but what we often can do is perpetuate it and magnify it, because I continually say, well, I had to because he would've been mad. I had to because this, I had to, because that rather than, wait, hold on. Yes, that's part of the dynamic of where the choice was made, but you made the choice.
Pam Allan: You didn't have to
Corey Allan: Because what we're trying to do is flip it to where, well, I either did that or he was going to be really angry, so you'd rather punish yourself than face his anger. What's being exposed about both of you here? That's how you start to look at this different, because even the husbands in this instance with the higher desire that accept mercy sex, which perpetuates the problem, because what you're saying to her, if she's offering up crumbs of sex, if you will, what you're saying to her is, I'll take anything sexual you got, even if you're not a part of it.
Pam Allan: So are we saying that mercy sex should never happen?
Corey Allan: Well, okay. This is where we start to come to the difference of what's the difference between I choose and I give freely, and I'm a part of, even if it's not a complete emotional connection, this is what we'll build on in the extended content with the flip side of this equation. But you know what? That's the difference between I'll be here for you as the higher desire partner. I know this matters to you. I know having an orgasm is important to you. It helps with your mood. I'm going to bring it all out on the table as my motivations as to why I'm doing this. Sure.
Pam Allan: That's a
Corey Allan: Whole different thing rather than, okay, just get it over with quick.
Pam Allan: So you would even call that, yeah, I want to be here for you. And it doesn't hinder me. Right? It doesn't cause guilt. It doesn't cause get it over and get it fast. I mean, if I'm someone that's actively avoiding sex, back to some of the mercy sex definitions, we don't initiate actively avoid causes a distaste. I guess I see a different definition of it's not a good night for me. I'm not really interested in sex, but I'll have sex. I know it's important to you. That doesn't feel like mercy sex to me.
Corey Allan: Right? That's more of a freely chosen, yeah, freely participant in, yeah. Right. And that's the idea of, look, I've got on a level of one to 10, I've got level four energy for this. It's not going to be wild and crazy with me pursuing a lot for me because it's really going to be more for you if you're willing to be a part of that. I'm on board. That's the difference because mercy sex oftentimes becomes such a different thing where it's just isolated individuality with a partner nearby.
Pam Allan: It's about me, and it just doesn't sound like it's ever good.
Corey Allan: Well, it's not. That's why mercy sex is not, but what you're describing is the freely chosen participatory on some level sex, which then the higher desire partner has to come to grips with. Am I okay with that? That's more freely chosen. It's more offered. Because what happens oftentimes is with mercy sex, the husband can be using the wife to calm himself down and ease his own insecurities, which the wife sees and knows which won't create desire. That's nars phrase of, I can inflate your penis or I can inflate your ego. I can't do both. And that's what's being exposed. And so if you look at it through, okay, wait for the husband here. How have I pursued it and what have I accepted now? How do I do better of growing into, I'm going to be more upfront about what I'm looking for, and if that's not what's offered or willing, then okay, I will wait. I'll treat well, I'll be respectful. I'll be kind and loving,
Pam Allan: Which sounds like kind of the path they've been on for a while, just not in their sex life.
Corey Allan: So it's the same kind of thing trying to get, now it's moving it into the laboratory that increases the temperature literally
Of what's being exposed in each of you. And so if you can look at it through this lens, the goal for me in this Pam, is how do you move it from just covert manipulative aspects that we are all capable of and move it to more overt? You have a choice here. Either way, I'm going to have a consequence. There will be something that happens from it. It may be good, it may be bad, I don't know, but the better way I face it is the better way. Ultimately, I grow through it and it becomes an aspect of our relationship that actually can be very good and beneficial. That was an interesting thought exercise in the extended content.
Pam Allan: If you didn't
Corey Allan: Catch it, it was like watching my wife get all giddy over food.
Pam Allan: Yeah. Yeah. It's time for lunch now. So we're going to go get some food
Corey Allan: On board with that.
Pam Allan: Is it going to be five star or one star? Here's the question. Oh,
Corey Allan: Wait, you were talking about actual food. I thought you were going No way.
Pam Allan: Oh, I was talking actual food. Yes, I was.
Corey Allan: Well, if you like what we got going on here, and you want to also incidentally jump in on the chance to win the registration for the getaway registration's going on now. So if you go to smr fm slash getaway, get you a whole lot of information about the getaway, you can reserve your spot now and if you win because you have given us a review and then told us your username on Apple Podcasts, and if you win the giveaway, we'll just refund it back to you. And if you don't win, you can get $75 off and we'll take care of that. We'll make it all square with everybody. So you can register now and learn more if you want to join us, but please do. It's a fantastic time and get away together with us and your spouse more importantly. So if you like the show, let us know. Also, transcripts are available and the show notes on each, the episode pages, and then all the advertisers deals and discount codes are available at SMR fm. So please consider supporting those who support the show. Thank you for listening and enjoy your lunch or your dinner or whatever star level rating you go after, and we'll see you next time.