On today’s regular version of the show …
An email from a wife who has repeated attempted to educate her husband about how she wants sex to unfold, yet is still getting little to no foreplay and routine, unfulfilling sex most of the time.
On the Xtended version …
Should you expect your spouse to “be there” for you in marriage? What does that even mean?
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Transcript of Episode
Dr. Corey Allan: Where we’re having straightforward, honest conversations that are on your mind with the topics that you’ve got, the questions you have, the curiosities that we’re trying to create an area and a nation, if you will, that if you’ve got a question you don’t know where else to ask, this is the place. So you can call 214-702-9565. Leave a message on what’s on your mind and anything that we can give our two cents to because we want to go where you want to go. So if you like what’s going on here too, we also ask you to jump on iTunes, leave us a review and a rating, or Spotify, or Stitcher, or iHeartRadio, or however you choose to join the nation. We are so glad that you join it every time. So alongside my wife, Pam, as always.
Dr. Corey Allan: We’re looking forward to wherever we may be going today.
Pam: Yeah, looking forward to it.
Dr. Corey Allan: Because coming up on today’s regular version, the free version, of Sexy Marriage Radio, we’ve got a couple of your questions and our answers. On the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, a little bit longer, and no ads, you can subscribe at smr.fm. You can listen to a little more in-depth conversation Pam and I are going to have about this idea of, “Should you expect your spouse to be there for you?”
Pam: All right. Anytime we have the word expect-
Dr. Corey Allan: Fair.
Pam: … that throws up flags for me, so that’ll be a fun conversation.
Dr. Corey Allan: Okay. So all of that is coming up on today’s show. And speaking of today’s show, today’s show is sponsored by the Sexy Marriage Radio Man of His Word Mastermind Groups.
Dr. Corey Allan: They come around a couple times a year, and so it’s that time of year now for the fall sessions that go on. It’s a six-month commitment. If a man wants to be a part of this group, there’s a application process to be a part of it. So if you are interested, send me an email, firstname.lastname@example.org. That is C-O-R-E-Y, by the way, and let me know you’re interested and we’ll give you the next steps.
Dr. Corey Allan: So this came from one of the episodes we did at the getaway with episode 421, which was on Lasting Longer and Squirting, if I remember right, as the title.
Pam: Squirting’s always a hit-
Dr. Corey Allan: It was a hit.
Pam: [crosstalk 00:02:42], right?
Dr. Corey Allan: So this is a listener that emailed in shortly after that episode aired and she was just saying, “Hey, I was just catching up on the last couple of episodes and wanted to chime in about the topic of squirting. Dr. Allan, you said the squirting is achieved through G-spot stimulation, but I wanted to say that I do often squirt and it’s always been from clitoral stimulation. I’ve only been married a few years, and my husband and I haven’t quite figured out the G-spot. And I haven’t had an orgasm via intercourse yet, even though I know some women don’t. I’ve been able to achieve all levels of orgasms, even squirting, through just clitoral stimulation though.” So she wanted to at least just chime in to say it’s not just G-spot.
Dr. Corey Allan: Which is a great, great addition to our conversation because I think it’s also worth noting that it’s largely built on the ability and the magnitude of the orgasm. So that’s not just G-spot because it is, as she’s saying, clitoral orgasms can reach the magnitude to achieve that.
Dr. Corey Allan: So then she also goes on to say, “I also wanted to speak to the man who asked the question specifically regarding his wife’s concern that it feels like she’s going to urinate. I just wanted to say that it does feel the same. First time it happened to me, I actually thought that I’d wet the bed and apologize to my husband, but yet he then had to tell me what had happened. However, I’ll also say that it only ever happens when I’m having the most intense orgasms. So I’ve grown to like it. I do sometimes hold it in because I don’t feel like dealing with the mess that it makes and other times, I choose to go for it. Then there’s times when just everything’s so good that I can’t control it and it just happens. By the way, my husband likes it too because he knows that it means everything was feeling really good for me.”
Dr. Corey Allan: So it sounds like she’s actually able to do it. This is her feedback to the listener or the voicemail. But she’s holding back. So this listener is saying, “I would encourage her not to, but to give it a try.”
Pam: Right, to not hold back.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right.
Pam: Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Corey Allan: Let it go and see if that’ll create what you’re looking for. Because we don’t need to put a cap on things-
Pam: No, no.
Dr. Corey Allan: … is what she said.
Pam: If it’s going to make your teeth shake, go for it.
Dr. Corey Allan: A teeth-shaking orgasm, that should be what everybody’s striving for, right? At times?
Pam: Right, or a squirting one. That’s a better way to…
Dr. Corey Allan: Fair enough. So thank you for the nation helping out the nation because I love it when the conversations get rounded out with filling in, “No, no, hold on. There’s this other side to it too.” Or, “There’s this other aspect to it that’s worth noting.”
Dr. Corey Allan: So another email came in. This one’s actually been in the queue for a little while, and she’s talking about that the problem that she has… This from a wife… that she has in sex with her husband, that some of this is because she’s married to a man that’s often deployed. He’s a Marine. So they have trouble just because of schedule and his service.
Pam: Well, schedule and when he comes back, you’re trying to just get into a routine together anyway, right?
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. Reentry is an issue.
Pam: Reentry. Yeah.
Dr. Corey Allan: So it’s recognizing that it’s created a lot of issues of depression and some emotions that have come along through the years with his deployment that she’s felt very, very down, and alone, and isolated. Okay?
Dr. Corey Allan: So that’s the foundation of where this lands. So the problem she says is, “That my sex life is that I don’t get any foreplay. And if I do, it’s maybe three to five minutes. I’ve sent him articles and videos of what I’d like him to do, but he never retains any of it. He knows that the average warmup time for a woman is about 40 minutes, but I’ve never received that. Also, he’s never given me an orgasm without me using a vibrator or other toys.” Even though, she puts in parentheses, “I’m still the one giving myself the O’s, not him.” She recognizes it’s not just his responsibility.
Dr. Corey Allan: “I’ve never experienced the inside orgasm, and I’m getting extremely sad because I hear all the stories from my girlfriends about how they have great sex and it’s the best orgasms that they’ve ever experienced. I know I shouldn’t compare or have expectations, but it’s so hard. My husband gets great foreplay from me, and I’m not getting anything in return that’s anywhere near what I give him. Also, I want to do it a lot more in bed, but he isn’t comfortable with it and it’s driving me crazy. I’m at the point where I’m questioning if I want to be with him anymore. I love him, but more as a companionship and not as a lover. I feel like I’m friend-zoned with my husband. On the other side of the note, little soft baby bird kisses that he loves, I don’t like. And even during sex, we don’t make out and if we do, it’s like five seconds and that’s it. I told him all of this, but he isn’t changing anything. I’m willing to do so much for him to be happy. But the more I do for him, the less I want to do anything because I’m still not happy. I don’t want this to eventually end in separation, but I don’t know what to do. How do I bring back my passion and save my marriage?”
Dr. Corey Allan: So I think we should just land on this one for a little bit.
Pam: Okay. Yeah.
Dr. Corey Allan: Because there’s a lot going on here.
Pam: Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot to unpack. I guess my question is how do you start that? She’s talking and saying what she wants, which I guess you have to do, it’s speak up and say what you want.
Dr. Corey Allan: That’s how it all starts.
Pam: But when that doesn’t work, what’s your counsel to people that come into your office for… What’s the next step? Right? Because we always say take step number one and see what happens, and then take step number two.
Dr. Corey Allan: Yeah. So optimally, I’d be working with both of them and had the chance to read each of them while one of them is talking. Because she is explaining it, I could watch him to see if his take is the same or if he’s offended. So you get an idea of how well do each of them confront what’s going on between them because each of us have a filter that is skewed in our favor in some regards. Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: That’s the bias we have as humans.
Dr. Corey Allan: So if they both are there, it’s largely the same route that I can go. If it’s just her that’s there, and the main route would be, “Okay, so you’ve brought up the conversations.” I would ask, “How? What do you talk about?” Because a lot of times what we can do when we try to implement some sort of a change in our relationship, especially in the sexual dynamic, we can get in this arena of I explain it, but I’m also got a little level of criticism, a little level of snarkiness, there’s a little spite in there, there’s a little nuance that’s not always good.
Dr. Corey Allan: Because we’re hurt. It’s coming from a hurt and it’s coming from a frustration, and that will bleed through. So anytime that is covering parts of it or noticeable in it, that’s met with defensiveness deflection. It’s not usually heard. Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: So a lot of it is, “How do you come at it?” I would do a little coaching on that. “What do you say?” Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: Because there’s this element of saying, “Hey, you know what? I want to tell you a little bit about what I think will help work or what I’m looking for.” Versus, coming at it with, “You know what? This isn’t working for me, and you’re going to have to do this, this…” Those two different deliveries will create different responses, just at face value.
Dr. Corey Allan: So then the other thing is after she’s done what she’s done, where there’s been the conversations, there’s been the attempts at education. Then, when you’re in the middle of an interlude together sexually and you get your three minutes of foreplay and it stops because he’s ready to transition, that’s when you have to make the bolder move of, “No, I’m not ready yet.”
Pam: “Not moving yet.”
Dr. Corey Allan: We’re not transitioning to the sex part yet as far as the intercourse part. I’m assuming that’s what they would transition to.
Dr. Corey Allan: But you have to make the bolder move to basically show and say, “I’m not settling for what we’ve been doing. I’m changing up the dynamic even if that means we don’t get what we’ve usually been doing.”
Pam: Right. Even if that means, “You don’t get orgasm, [crosstalk 00:11:20], tonight.” Yeah.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. I mean, because the way she’s talking about it is he’s not involved in her process in the level she wants him involved.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right? It’s parallel sex going on if you think about it. So in one regard, they’ve already created a scenario that it’s not too foreign from what they do that would be if foreplay’s starting, he’s ready transition, she’s not, and she says, “You know what? No, I want to go slower. I want this to be a different thing.” Se’s very clear about what she’s looking for and he’s like, “Oh, so I guess you just don’t even want sex. You don’t even want…” However he might respond because we often don’t always respond in a real adult way.
Dr. Corey Allan: Then, she can say, “No, I still want this, and I’ll go ahead and do it myself if that’s what it takes because I’m already doing it anyway.” Right?
Pam: Yeah. I think that’s the move you do have to make.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right.
Pam: She’s got to, and it sounds like she is already, standing up for herself. It’s a sad statement that it seems like he’s missing out on this fullness of her that she’s wanting to bring to the table that could make their sex life together so much more dynamic. He’s just kind of leaving it there, so I think it is going to take a boldness from her even more than what she’s already brought.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. Taking on my own kind for a moment. There’s an element of us as men that can fall into the rut of, “Do what gets the job done and that’s it.”
Dr. Corey Allan: Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: That it’s, “I have figured out how to achieve whatever it is I’m looking for, whether it’s just my own pleasure, or my wife’s, or both, or whatever it might be. A majority of the time, I know the path that will get the job done. Let’s bottom line it, almost.” Well, when you’re married to a woman that wants a little more variety, which is most women.
Dr. Corey Allan: There is a variety is the spice of life when it comes to women in a lot of regards.
Pam: Yeah, give me an adventure. Give me a journey.
Dr. Corey Allan: So when you’re up against that, “Do what work last time,” leaves a whole lot of possibility of pain, frustration, disappointment, boredom. Because just because it worked once doesn’t mean it needs to be done 1,000 times in a row.
Pam: Yeah. I mean, it’s not to say that it won’t work again in the future, but for Pete’s sake, let’s change it up.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right.
Dr. Corey Allan: So it’s seeing it as, “How do you recognize as a man, my job is to not always fall into what worked, but also go on the adventure of what else could work? What else do I possibly have avenues towards because I’ve got a willing teacher alongside me?” As she’s describing. She’s saying, “Let’s do this. This is what I would prefer.” If he’s not getting it on the intellectual conversational level, he’s going to have to get it on the action level, which means she has to be bold enough to make the move and shut it down, or make the move and continue by herself, or make whatever it might be to be able to create the critical mass to see, “Is he really in it at the deeper level, and he’s good, and wants to be a part and a participant in it? Or, is he willing to let it go?”
Pam: I think the dynamic they’ve got here, I keep going back to him being deployed quite often and wonder how much of that dynamic plays into it because potentially you’ve got, “Because I’m away so much, I’ve got a fair amount of masturbation, potentially, that’s playing into this.”
Dr. Corey Allan: Possibly.
Pam: Which changes that whole dynamic of how sex would play out, especially when you’re coming back and reentering into the relationship. So that feels like an uphill battle, but that makes it all the more important for her to just bring the best of her and be able to be pure in what she’s coming with.
Dr. Corey Allan: Pam, you’re almost bringing it up this idea of when you’ve got a lot of times where there’s distance between you, one partner, like what it sounds like, he reenters and he’s wanting to immediately pick up in the sexual arena together. Whereas, she’s saying, “I want the other parts of it too.” That’s the variety and the spice too. It’s the emotional component, the mental component. There’s more to it than just an act because as she’s pointed out, most women, a lot of women take a lot of time to get into it. Because it’s not just a physical thing, it’s a mental and emotional thing that’s got to be a component of it.
Dr. Corey Allan: Whereas, a man that’s been gone a while, he’s just ready for all of it right then, not necessarily the work it could entail to bring the emotional component to it as well. So it’s just seeing it as from what she’s saying, her role is she’s got to follow up with action to see if it starts to prove itself out.
Pam: Yeah, action in the bedroom.
Dr. Corey Allan: This is the point I’m making. This is the point that I do not like. So if three to five minutes of foreplay is not enough, be willing to end it at the three to five-minute mark when he’s ready to change it and walk away from it, at that moment, not the marriage, but the sexual encounter.
Pam: Right. Mm-hmm (affirmative). It sounds like she’s more in tune with her body as well. So within the moment, it’s not uncommon for a woman to say, “Well, I don’t know what I want.”
Dr. Corey Allan: She’s done the research to find it is what it sounds like.
Pam: It sounds like she has. So being able to even just show him and guide him during the act seems like that that would be something she could do, and it would be hard to get past resentfulness. Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: Yep.
Pam: I want my spouse to want to do this. I want them to want to do it for me. But it may be that I’ve got to get past that and say, “You know what? I’m going to show them, here’s what I want. Here’s how I want you to touch me. It’s hard to get past that, but I have to get past it.”
Dr. Corey Allan: You do. Then, that brings up a whole… I want to spend a little bit longer on this then, rather than transitioning to a different voicemail for a second.
Dr. Corey Allan: That brings up a whole different dynamic that is at play that if a woman… When a wife, in this instance, has taken the steps to try to be more proactive in her own sex life and sexuality, and she’s trying to then bring that to her husband and teach him what it is. Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: “Let me teach you about me.” There is a component of us as humans, and this is definitely prevalent in men, of, “I don’t like being up against something I don’t know or understand.” Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: It’s an inadequacy thing. It’s a insecurity thing. It’s a, “What if I can’t come through?” thing. There’s a lot of things that get tested in a man when there’s someone telling him what he should or shouldn’t do. There’s a part of us just that are like rebellious to that. Sometimes, we don’t handle that well and so we shut down and fall back to do what works last time, or play ignorant, or do these different things. I know I’m not alone in this, fellas, in the Sexy Marriage Radio nation.
Pam: But isn’t this exactly the actionable thing that we tell people that, “I’ve got to show you-
Dr. Corey Allan: Yes. I agree.
Pam: “If there’s not this desire, I’ve got to stand up for me and say, ‘This is what I want.'”
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. I just want to point out that on both sides, because you’re landing on the fact that for a woman, even I have to get past the resentment of, “I don’t want to have to show. I don’t want to have to tell and be specific sometimes. I want a partner, a spouse that would be in tuned and would be willing in figuring it out.”
Pam: I’m not saying he’s going to be 100% willing when I start showing him.
Dr. Corey Allan: I get you. But that also flies right into the other spouse. In this case, the husband has to confront himself on, “Wait, I need to confront what else do I want in the relationship? And is my wife telling me what it is she wants really a knock on my sexual prowess and ability or not?” Because it’s that we get into these identity things
Pam: Well, yeah. It’s when one spouse is driving, the other one’s telling you how to drive or where to park and you get mads so you purposefully go the opposite way because, “Well, you told me to park over here. I’ll show you. I’m going to park on the other side of the parking lot.”
Dr. Corey Allan: Right.
Pam: That’s a very ungrown-up way to look at things. Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: But it is what we do.
Pam: But it is what we do.
Dr. Corey Allan: Yep. I want to, at least with this conversation for this episode, bring up the idea that there’s more going on that… By going down the route of, “Look, you’ve got to make some actionable moves.” Is our council with this is. That’s our thought. That flies right in the face of, “Well, you need to at least be aware of as you face, ‘What could happen from this? Because it’s going to call both of you to have to stand up and confront some things differently.'”
Pam: Yeah. Well, there’s got to be more going on than just this if she’s making the comments that separation may be in play. Right?
Dr. Corey Allan: Right.
Pam: I got to think there’s a lot more going on in this relationship than just this.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. It’s just manifesting itself this way in a lot of regards because this fits into the arena of how you do sex is how you do life. The fundamentals of those things can be overlapping. So you’re right, there is more. But just recognize, I love the idea that how do you do a bolder move that’s in congruence with who you want to be because that at least puts more front and center, “This is the dynamic going on between us. If you want to be a student alongside me with this, we got the possibilities of no ceiling on what we could do together sexually and maritally. But if you don’t, then tell me. I need to know that upfront so I can make some decisions too.” That’s the whole path of how this goes, Pam, with this episode.
Dr. Corey Allan: That’s this whole idea of… We get calls to 214-702-9565, and we get emails to feedback at sexymarriageradio.com regularly asking for help with my relationship, with my marriage. But one of the things that I’ve been seeing over and over with clients and then with some of the emails that I go back and forth with for listeners in the nation is, “What about the relationship I have with myself?”
Dr. Corey Allan: Right? Because that’s where I think this whole thing rests.
Pam: Okay. Why is that?
Dr. Corey Allan: Because just like the previous emailer of this is about her standing up for her. That’s a move for better relationship with myself. I’ve had clients lately… Well, long-term if I think about this, but lately the theme has definitely been they’re in really tough spots. Where I finally get some traction with them is when we go down this route of exploring, “How do you earn your own self-respect? What moves do you make? What statements do you do that follow up with action that are in congruence with your level of self-respect so that you can lay your head at the pillow at the end of the day and go, ‘I’m good with how I conducted myself for the most part today.’ Rather than, ‘I lay my head on the pillow, and I’m frustrated because I didn’t change anything in my marriage. My spouse still isn’t doing what I want, or they still didn’t pick up on it, or they’re still critical-
Pam: “And I feel like a doormat, or I feel like whatever.”
Dr. Corey Allan: Yeah. “I’m being treated poorly, and disrespected, and dismissed, and parallel-lived, and all the different things.” Rather than see it as, “How am I conducting myself that is, one, something I would want to be married to? And, two, I’m good with?” It’s that whole idea of… Okay, so in our relationship, we’re 26 years into this thing.
Dr. Corey Allan: So I know my actions are going to cause consequence and reaction from you. Not everything I do-
Pam: And vice versa, yeah.
Dr. Corey Allan: … but some of the stuff I do will. I know some of the things I choose to do, they’re not necessarily high on your list of, “Oh, I love that about you.”
Dr. Corey Allan: Right? So those are the things that we’re going to get judged over, if you will, in marriage. So my thought is, “How do you go down the route with this self-respect mantra of, ‘If I’m going to be judged, I want to make sure what it is that’s being judged I’m okay with because it’s in congruence with me.'” It’s like, “You know what? I don’t like it when you do that.” And I’m like, “I get that.”
Pam: That’s it. That’s it. That’s your only comment. Okay.
Dr. Corey Allan: I get that.
Pam: “I get that. Have fun judging me, honey.”
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. Because it’s like, “I like me in this way.” Hear this very clearly as a Sexy Marriage Radio nation, this is not saying I can just be whatever I want and I don’t care about the consequences with other people. No, I need to recognize that.
Pam: Yeah, you got to recognize that something you’re comfortable with may totally be at odds for your marriage staying strong.
Dr. Corey Allan: As humans, tell me if I’m wrong with this, too often we tend to temper ourselves more than expose ourselves of who we are to people around us that we care about.
Pam: Yeah. Speaking for myself, I would tend to try and please or-
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. I don’t want to create the waves.
Pam: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Corey Allan: I don’t want to be a disappointment. I don’t want to be a frustration. So we do all these different things when I could be sitting there one night when we have no plans and I’m really wanting to go out and play ball with the friends and I never mentioned it to you that I was invited to go play ball and now I’m wrestling with this whole, “Man, how could I figure out a way to just go play?” You’re like, “Oh, this is really great. We get to hang out all evening. I haven’t seen you.” So it’s that whole we both have our wants and neither one are right or wrong, but oftentimes, there’s a tendency of, “I don’t want to create the possibility of disappointment, so I’ll just temper myself.
Dr. Corey Allan: Rather than, “Hey, babe, I’m ready to go play ball.” “Oh, I thought we were going to hang out tonight.” “Yeah, we will. I’ll be back in two hours.” I mean, there’s a difference to it on how am I living a more solid life standing up and making the moves like we were talking about with the wife emailer earlier of, “I got to stand up for me because this is just a truism of life is no one’s going to care for you like you can.” So it’s seeing it of, “The importance I’ve got is handling me and my relationship with me.” That’s the airplane mentality with the oxygen masks?
Pam: It is. I would go back. I totally agree with this just because I think I want to be able to rest at night. I want to be able to lay my head down and know, “You know what? I’ve done what I can do.” As long as I’m living with an immoral character-
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. This is all under the framework of integrity and character.
Pam: Making some sort of assumption that when you guys got married, you were in at least some sort of agreement of what your moral character is supposed to be. I can jive a lot more with a lot of things that go on in life when I know I’m living from who I want to be and doing what I want to be about.
Dr. Corey Allan: Right. That’s the analogy that one of my professors said in my doc program. He says he envisions people that we all are walking around with these 55-gallon drums strapped around our heart, our neck-
Pam: Oh, yes. I love this example.
Dr. Corey Allan: … or we’re holding, right?
Dr. Corey Allan: Like, person A wakes up and by just their makeup, their nature, their culture, their societal upbringing, who they are just as people, they’re already 75% full. So they’re going around the rest of the day trying to find that 25%. We find it through comradery, friendship, laughter, money status, sex, love, I mean, whatever it is that helps fill your bucket. That’s what everybody’s doing is going around trying to fill their bucket each day. Well, then another person, person B, because of their who they are, genetic, whatever makeup it is, they start with their bucket 25% full. So they’re looking for 75% from people every day to make themselves feel better and accomplished by the end of the day.
Dr. Corey Allan: So with that scenario, with person A and person B, who do you want to be a friend with? Who do you want to be in relationship with? To me, it’s person A because they don’t need as much. So that’s the whole premise of, “When I can stand on my own two feet better, I’ve created something that’s much more likely to be wanted rather than needed.” When I look at it through that lens, that puts pressure on both people to carry their weight in the relationship to be chosen and then lead you into the promised land hopefully of being cherished by each other, where you truly do feel what you’ve been longing for all along. That just comes by being willing to take the risk and see if it happens.
Dr. Corey Allan: Well, it’s interesting to me that this is… Lots of times on the shows, we get through lots of different questions.
Pam: Okay. Yeah.
Dr. Corey Allan: But this time, we went a bunch of different ways with one.
Pam: Yeah, we did.
Dr. Corey Allan: So that was a well-rounded question, I guess you could say-
Pam: Yeah. There you go.
Dr. Corey Allan: … that was asked because there’s a whole lot in there that is applicable to, I think, a lot of people more than just the woman that emailed in. So I hope-
Pam: Yes. Thank you for emailing in.
Dr. Corey Allan: Absolutely. I hope we help you further down the path from where you are today.
Pam: Yeah. And if anything was left undone, email us again.
Dr. Corey Allan: Yep. Feedback at sexymarriageradio.com or even better, 214-702-9565. So wherever you are, whatever you’ve been doing, thanks for taking some time out of your day to spend it with us. See you next time.